This is what I wrote back to Andy:

Bishop, huh? Whoo hooo!

Those powers of discernment really come in handy when you critique a web site!

Back to business:

You said: "Every single point you make has been more than adequately dealt with by our scholars."

This just terrifies me, and it should rightfully terrify you. It's the same thing as the Nazi lieutenant saying: "Our leaders know what's right!" You have relinquished your own responsibilities of learning the facts to the very group whose interest it is to persuade you from knowing real facts from fiction! It's as if a Republican gets all his facts from Rush Limbaugh!

I, like you, was a convert. I joined at 17. I served a very faithful mission, and lived the church life to my very fullest until age 41. I raised 3 kids in the church, and lead the YM and EQ for many many years.

But we had a problem in our family: Our home evening motto was the "i" word: INTEGRITY. And integrity demands that you live on the outside what you know on the inside.

To make a long story short, while planning a gospel doctrine class I stumbled upon David Whitmer's "An address to all believers in Christ." (Boy, the don't quote that WHOLE address in the LDS study guides, do they?!)

Anyway, one thing led to another, and our entire family departed on a 6 month study of the truthfulness of the LDS claims. Andy, I have to tell you... it certainly would have been much, much easier to remain LDS. My wife goes back 5 generations, most of my business associates are LDS, my kids were fully steeped in it, etc. etc. etc. But the "i" word kept getting in the way.

It turns out that nothing is real in the LDS theology nor in its claims. There are no Lehites or Nephites. Gold plates did not get delivered and then sent back to Kolob or who knows where. Ancient Indians did not fight wars like the Green Mountain Boys of Vermont! Joseph was a convicted treasure digger! He did have sex with 14 year olds! He did marry 33+ women, many of them already married. He did die rather wealthy. The temple really is terribly related to free masonry. The Book of Abraham papyrus really is nothing more than the Book of Breathings. Mormon leaders did practice blood atonement. The doctrine has most certainly changed! What was true cannot now be false, and what was false cannot now be true!

It was so very hard to finally face the facts that the whole darn thing is based on a scam. But, once you see it, if you have integrity, you have to move off the dime and change your life.

And guess what? The earth did not cave in, and the Lord did not strike us with fire. Instead, our kids went off to colleges and universities of great reputation, my business has done fine, and our family is much closer and loving than ever. And our health is a lot stronger than the nearly dozens of LDS women we know dying of breast cancer and heart disease from overweight problems.

Don't take anything for granted. Your feelings are just that... feelings. Feelings never were facts. If so, everyone would always be right; no?

By the way, the exit out of mormonism does NOT have to be a godless life. We happen to be very spiritual Christians of the Lutheran mode of worship.

I hope you find the light in your life.

Oh, and by the way... all that guilt you have felt all your life as a mormon... well, that is just all made up by the LDS money-driven theology. Yes, there is a right and a wrong... and we are to fight the fight to do right. But truthfully, all have indeed sinned and will continue to sin by either commission or omission. It is not our righteousness that gets us anywhere anyway. It is the righteousness of Christ which we accept as a gift from God. If you don't believe it, re-read your Bible. It's in there - no kidding. If you read the Bible through non-mormon glasses you would be amazed!

You know, it's amazing to me, how truly brainwashed a person can be, and this "bishop" is a perfect example. In every area of modern life, people are held accountable for the factuality (or lack thereof) of their own words. In every day life, we are all expected to stick closely to those facts which can be proven, and steer clear of speculation, or worse yet, deceit. In real life, outright lies can turn in to lawsuits (libel, slander, defamation of character, etc.). For some reason though, when it comes to the LDS church, all common sense is cast aside, all rational thinking, all cautiousness - and all the healthy skepticism that has sustained the human race for millions of years - is summarily dismissed. In its place, the so-called "spirit of discernment" - as though a warm fuzzy feeling is a suitable substitute for first-hand empirical data. I've got nothing against religion in general, but I, for one, will never mistake a warm fuzzy feeling for a genuine religious experience. If that were all it took to "prove" something were goose bumps, perhaps film makers would be our Gods. I've been moved and swayed more at the movies than I ever have at any church, but at least the movies don't pretend to be anything other than movies. Say what you want about Hollywood, but when it comes to factual integrity, even the phonies in the movie business have got more integrity than the mormons when it comes to fact-vs-fiction!

After reading the pompous ramblings of this bishop, it has only served to validate the many reasons I left the church. On leaving the LDS church, I have not lost my faith in God, nor have I become a horrible person, nor have I been "struck down," etc. His attacks are textbook of someone who is frightened and hiding behind a shaky wall. He will do everything to keep that wall upright in order to continue to convince himself that what he believes is true. I know - I've been there. I was a member of that church for 27 years. I absolutely refused to listen to any anti-mormon sentiment. What finally convinced me it was all a scam was to read from the church's own historical documents (which undergo periodic revisions, as you know) - not "anti-mormon rhetoric."

I feel for this man who is living in a very fragile illusion. He is able to see only what is on the surface of his religion. Were he to dig a little deeper, he would see the Truth - but, as you know, until one is ready to do such a thing and have their eyes opened, they will only throw the same kinds of jabs at people such as ourselves. He reminds me of a little hedgehog who curls up into a ball at the approach of conflict and lets his barbs stick out all over.

Richard, although I am not an atheist or agnostic, I appreciate your Web site. I learned a lot from it, and it helped to validate the things that I was learning on my own, as well as to give practical advice for getting off the membership rolls. I thank you.

I think his salutation in the first letter in response to your website says it all. Nothing against you, mind you. But if he truly believes in Mormon doctrine, he is doing nothing short of cursing you.

It also reminds me of the Chinese curse -- "May you live in interesting times." Reading this -- "May the God you deny bless you with all you deserve" with the former phrase in mind I think you will see what I mean.

As someone once said "Grace is getting what you don't deserve or not getting what you do deserve." Better he should have quoted this, but I guess that good-ole Mormon compassion and open-mindedness just wasn't present throughout this conversations.

God bless you (I mean that)

There is so much I could say about all this, but will only say this:

I want a bumper sticker that reads, "Korihor was right!"

Jeez, Andy is such a child...

Keep it up!

My never-Mormon husband wanted to know why the priesthood power never enlighted the bishops and ward leaders who called you to any church callings, if you were so devoid of any spirituality!

Second of all I would like to know why this poor chap can't use anything except his feelings. I wish he understood how incredibly dim and simple he sounds! All of my siblings, that have tried to save me, have given me the same schpeel (sp?) Gawd love'em, they try, but everyone of them who have borne me their testimony to try and get me back in the fold have confessed that they have not ever read a single thing (including the Book of Mormon) all the way through! At least not as an adult and with mature understanding. None of them have ever read anything but the Ensign, because it is not necessary. They have the burning and they know it to be the truth. As well as Joseph being the true and everlasting prophet.

Your email to Richard Packham is lacking in Mormon generosity and kindness. YOUR prophet, President Gordon B. Hinckley, said in a recent conference talk called, "The Work Goes On" (from the Saturday morning session, April 2001):

"We are not without critics, some of whom are mean and vicious. We have always had them, and I suppose we will have them all through the future. But we shall go forward, returning good for evil, being helpful and kind and generous. I remind you of the teachings of our Lord concerning these matters. You are all acquainted with them. Let us be good people. Let us be friendly people. Let us be neighborly people. Let us be what members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ought to be."

You gratuitously attacked Richard...wrote to him on his website (and what were you doing there anyway? it is clearly marked as anti-mormonism)....he didn't come to you...and then you cowardly call the discussion to a halt when you can't handle anymore.

For two bits IF I thought you were really a Mormon bishop, I would write to President Hinckley and ask him if your bit of nastiness is the type of Mormon behavior he wishes to promote in his church.

I have served under three different bishops, high councils and even worked for the LDS Church for eleven years.

I have three close friends who have been LDS bishops who have recently left the Church. Not one of them left due to sin, such as infidelity or other selfish reasons. I can vouch for their integrity and character.

One was a sitting bishop and DNA molecular biologist who realized after studying it out in his mind and praying about it that there is not a shred of DNA science evidence to connect Amerindians to Israelites....

This friend has a loving wife and four children and when leaving the Church did not leave to join another church.

Another friend has been a seminary teacher for years, and a bishop, and left after studying and doing some real research into the Church's history and background. He wasn't sleeping around and was not a closet homosexual.

Another friend left during his second tenure as a bishop. He was also employed by the church at the time, received what he called serious threats from Church headquarters not to leave and actually caught a stranger in his home office rummaging through his files during this process.

This exbishop is one of the kindest and gentile men you will ever meet. He left after realizing that the basic history and tenets of the church are not true. He did not leave to join another religion.

Signature Books will be publishing next year a book which is an anthology of personal stories written by many ex-bishops explaining why they officially departed from the LDS Church.

FYI: Here are the figures for people who officially resign their membership from the church: Name removal requests processed over the past 6 years:

1995:.......... 35,420
1996:.......... 50,177
1997:.......... 55,200
1998:.......... 78,750
1999:.......... 81,200
2000:.......... 87,500

So lately about 80K want to leave officially each year. Are all of these folks drug users, sex fiends, adulterers, etc. I am sure that some of these people who leave fit that category but they are a minority. Most leave because they realize it is not true and their own integrity drives them out.

It is a myth that people leave because they are living in sin.

And contrary to your belief that only LDS people can have truly spiritual experiences, I have had many after leaving the church. In fact, I challenge you to have your own personal spiritual experiences separate and apart from the church that you use as a spiritual crutch. To do so is to truly "grow up" as you challenged Richard Packham to do.

Andy states that "You (and your victims) will be sorry on Judgment Day!" Clearly, he's hasn't a clue regarding reality as the only place he's going, along with his fellow brainwashed mormon cult members is not a Kolob like planet, but a place called Hell.

Real Christians need to feel sorry for this poor soul and pray for him - he needs it because, at the rate he's going, Hell IS going to be a terrible place for him to live for eternity.

After reading his pompous drivel, I've now got a "burning in my bosom" - got to run and take a few Rolaids to get rid of it.